Announcer: Presentation of Dialogue on Idaho Public Television is made possible through the generous support of the Laura Moore Cunningham Foundation, committed to fulfilling the Moore and Bettis family legacy of building the great State of Idaho; by the Friends of Idaho Public Television, and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

With additional funding from the James and Barbara Cimino Foundation.

Rebecca Donner, Author: They woke up every day knowing what the risks were, but that's how they chose to live their lives.

And so, it, you know, these are stories that can inspire us, I think.

Marcia Franklin, Host: Coming up – it's a story of bravery…and tragedy.

And for my guest, it's a personal story as well.

I talk with author Rebecca Donner about her book, "All the Frequent Troubles of Our Days."

That's next on a 15th anniversary edition of "Conversations from the Sun Valley Writers' Conference" on Dialogue.

Stay tuned.

(Music) Franklin: Hello and welcome to Dialogue.

I'm Marcia Franklin.

When Rebecca Donner was growing up, she heard vague references to her great-great-aunt Mildred.

When she got older, though, her grandmother gave her some old letters from Mildred, and urged her granddaughter to write about her one day.

And it is a fascinating story.

During the 1930s, Mildred Harnack helped found one of the largest underground resistance groups against the Nazis in Germany.

She's also the only known American woman to be executed on a direct order from Adolf Hitler.

It's an important tale, but it's not an easy one to tell.

You see, Mildred left hardly anything behind.

Almost all of her compatriots were also killed by the Nazis, and some of the archival material about her is still classified.

But decades after receiving the letters, Donner was finally ready to tackle the project.

Along the way, she would find someone who knew Mildred, and make new discoveries.

The resulting book, "All the Frequent Troubles of Our Days," not only brings Mildred into the light, but also provides a cautionary tale about how quickly governments can descend into chaos.

I talked with Donner at the 2022 Sun Valley Writers' Conference about what she learned writing the book.

Franklin: Rebecca, this is an amazing story.

It really is.

It's riveting.

It's important.

And it's personal for you, which is what's so interesting.

Um, so I want to talk a little bit about that.

You were very young when you were visiting your great-grandmother and you were going through a rite of passage that is a fun rite of passage we all go through, which is, or a lot of us do; I did.

Um, is to be measured against the wall, your height.

Rebecca Donner, Author: Yes.

Franklin: And you saw this M on the wall… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …and you were like, "Well, who's that?"

And your great-grandmother just said, "Well, that's Mildred."

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Case Closed.

Donner: Case closed.

Yes.

There was a, she said this with a note of severity and, and even at the age of nine, I thought, "There's a story there."

And… Franklin: Yeah.

And then, um, lovingly and fortunately, your own, uh, grandmother, um, gifted you some letters.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: From, from M, from Mildred.

Donner: From M, yes.

When I was 16, Jane, uh, my grandmother, Jane, gave me these letters.

She knew at that point that I wanted to be a writer.

And so she gave me these letters and she said, "One day you must write this book."

Franklin: First let's talk about who Mildred was.

She was your great-great-aunt.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: She grew up very, very poor in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and, uh, met a gentleman at college who's German.

They fell in love.

And they both moved to Germany in late '29, late twenties?

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: To pursue their PhDs together.

And, um, talk about your great-great-aunt.

She was, she had a fervor about her and an intensity about her, maybe because she had grown up so poor.

She was very attuned from an early age to the rights of people, um, who had less.

Donner: That's right, yeah.

Franklin: And, and she and her husband were communists.

Donner: They, they were.

They, they never joined the party.

They were actually careful not to, because, uh, that would expose them to arrest in Germany, um, in Nazi Germany.

But, um, she was certainly sympathetic.

Uh, both she and Arvid were sympathetic to communist ideology.

And, and I think it, that, um, sympathy was rooted, yes, uh, Marcia, exactly, in, in her, um, experience growing up poor.

Uh, often they couldn't get enough to eat.

Franklin: So really, university changed her life.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And, um, and then changed again when she moved to Germany.

And the two of them were having a nice life in Germany.

And Hitler was starting to rise, but people didn't really take it seriously.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: And, um, at a certain point, uh, maybe around '33 or so she and Arvid, her husband, started realizing, "Um, this is not good."

Donner: Before Hitler became chancellor, there was a sense that, uh, between the two of them and, and in their circle, uh, that something must be done.

And so at this time, Mildred was teaching at the University of Berlin.

Uh, and, and later she taught at a night school for adults that primarily, uh, the students were impoverished Germans.

And, uh, and so this became a pool of recruits for what would eventually become, um, an underground resistance group that intersected with three others over the course of eight years, and then became the largest underground resistance group in, in Berlin by 1940.

In one of Mildred's letters -- um, these were the letters that my grandmother had given me when I was 16 -- she wrote, "Many in Germany are hiding their heads in the sand."

Um, and, and, uh, she saw that Hitler was a menacing force.

Franklin: That threat really accelerated quickly.

Donner: Oh, just, you know, it's, it is astonishing to me.

I mean, I was aware of this.

I, uh, but not until I've really delved deeply into this research did I, did I really fully take in how quickly it all happened.

I mean, it's interesting.

When Mildred moved, um, to Germany in 1929, the year before, the Nazi party got 3% of the vote in the Reichstag election in, in Germany's Parliament.

Uh, two years later, uh, 18%, and two years later, 37%.

And for the first time, the Nazi party was the largest party in, in the Reichstag.

Uh, just imagine that meteoric rise.

And so, Mildred did begin holding meetings in her apartment, and Arvid as well.

And they discussed even before Hitler became chancellor, um, strategies.

You know, "What should we do about this?

What can we do about this?"

Franklin: So, they started with pamphleteering.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: You know, lots of pamphlets, printing, getting them out.

You know, some things were named oddly, but really… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …if you opened 'em up, you, you got an education.

And at a certain point, they realized that's not enough.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: It's not enough to distribute literature, which was, by the way, dangerous… Donner: Very dangerous.

Franklin: …in and of itself.

Donner: Yes.

And in fact, several members of her group were hauled off to concentration camps.

Um, and, and this was what also, um, it's important to understand how dangerous it was to demonstrate against, uh, against the government.

Uh, the first prisoners who were hauled off to concentration camps were communists, Social Democrats, trade unionists, people who opposed, actively opposed, um, the Nazi regime.

When, uh, Germany quickly fell from parliamentary democracy to fascist dictatorship, uh, information was one of the first things that the Nazi government controlled.

And so these pamphlets attempted to educate people about what they, you know, the news that they weren't getting.

But, um, but yes, uh, as you said, you know, after a couple years, it became evident that paper was a poor weapon against a fascist dictator.

And so they changed their strategy.

They realized, um, that they needed to make contact with countries outside of Germany.

And then basically give them intelligence about, uh, Hitler's operational strategies and later military strategies in order to assist them in, in bringing him down.

And so with the Mildred's American passport, she could travel more freely than her German co-conspirators.

Franklin: And, and they were helping people escape too.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Jews?

Donner: She helped Jews escape, yes.

Franklin: Now, the letters we mentioned before that your grandmother gave you when you were 16.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Those were letters she wrote home.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: But she had to be incredibly circumspect about what was happening.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: She really couldn't be open in the beginning.

Donner: No.

Franklin: In the beginning, she could talk a little bit, like you said about, "Hmmm, people here seemed to be not getting it."

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: But once she was plunged, plunged herself into this underground network, the letters couldn't really express the truth.

Donner: They couldn't; she had to write in a kind of code.

And it was interesting; I, I just pored over these letters, and, and, and I, I read them countless times, and, and then sometimes something would emerge, and I realized, "Oh, she's, she means the opposite of what she's saying here."

Or she's, the word "cat" doesn't mean cat.

It means something else.

And, uh, and, and so I, I started to become familiar with her, with the code that she used.

Uh, and, um, because yes, she knew that there were Nazi censors, and that if she appeared to, um, oppose the regime, then she and Arvid could be arrested.

Franklin: At any point in time during the resistance, her underground resistance, she could have left.

And in fact… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …she did go back to the United States in 1937, visited her family, was acting pretty oddly.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Because of course she couldn't say what was going on.

Donner: Right.

Franklin: Oddly enough, that some of them thought, "Well, maybe she's gone over to the Nazi side."

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Um, why, and in your research, did you determine that she, she came back and went back into that maelstrom?

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And into that danger, when she could have stayed.

Some of it would be her husband, right?

She wanted to stay with him, but… Donner: Sure.

Franklin: …a lot of it was also the cause itself.

Donner: It was the cause itself, yes.

And, and her own family begged her to stay and, and they didn't understand, uh, why she went back to Germany.

Um, but she felt that she was involved.

And she, she, I think certainly she felt that she was an American and, and, uh, she wasn't renouncing her citizenship.

It was just that she was an American in Germany fighting, uh, the Nazis and, and fighting Hitler.

And she couldn't abandon that struggle.

And, uh, certainly she had no illusions about the dangers that she faced.

But she decided that, um, that it was worth, it was worth risking her life for.

Franklin: So, um, they were also sending information to the Americans.

And this is a really interesting… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …part of your, uh, book that…there was an American diplomat there.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: And, um, Mildred in particular was trying to get information to him.

Now, this was before we were, you know, actively involved.

Um, but she was trying to get information, and that diplomat's son… Donner: Mm-hmm.

Franklin: …was the way that she did it.

Little Don?

Donner: Little Don, he, yes.

Franklin: He, he would, he would come to her house, uh, under the pretense that he was getting some instruction from her, and, uh, lessons.

And she would slip notes in his, his bag.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: To take back to dad about where she wanted to meet him mostly, right?

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: To exchange information.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And, uh, Don, when you decided to write this book, you found was alive.

Donner: Mm-hmm.

Franklin: And you went to see him.

He was 89, I believe.

Donner: Yes, that's right.

Franklin: And incredible; he was able to fill in a lot of gaps, because as you said, um, Mildred just by her own nature, but by the dangerous work she was doing, she had to erase a lot of herself, you know, burnt her diaries and things like this.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And he was able to fill in those gaps and, and tell you what it was like as a, was he 11, 10 --11?

Donner: He was 11.

It was between the ages of 11 and 13… Franklin: …that he visited her.

Donner: …between 1939 and 1941.

Franklin: So he had this window… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …onto your great, great aunt.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: What a gift.

Donner: It was a tremendous gift.

I was so pleased, uh, that I had a chance to interview him.

Uh, and he had a vivid memory of his time as a boy as this little American boy running through the streets of Berlin with a knapsack, um, going to see his tutor, Mildred.

Um, and I mean, she really did tutor him in English and American literature.

But, yes, at the end of the lessons, she would slip a piece of paper into his knapsack, which he would then take to his father.

And, um, and I, I, when I, after my interviews with him, I realized that I wanted to make him a larger part of the book.

Because this was a really fascinating look at again, how Americans were involved in the resistance.

Don and Louise Heath, uh, his, his parents, met with Mildred and Arvid and decided and agreed, yes, uh, basically, uh, we would like our son to help you.

And the, the idea was this adorable 11-year-old boy would, uh, be able to, uh, escape detection, you know, um, and escape Gestapo surveillance in a way that, um, an adult German would not.

Franklin: And he was in fact, a lookout as well.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And he would, he would, was it whistle or sing something?

Donner: He would whistle a song.

Yes, yes, exactly.

There was one mo, he was really, it was like he was in his own John le Carré spy thriller.

Uh, he would meet, uh, Mildred in a park.

And when Mildred had to exchange satchels with another woman in the resistance and, uh, and Mildred instructed him, "If you see somebody follow us, whistle this tune, and if you don't see somebody follow us, then -- if the coast is clear, in other words, then whistle this tune."

Franklin: What do you, what's your sense of what Don gave you as a writer and as a great-great-niece that you wouldn't have been able to know, had you not been able to meet him?

Donner: I think, first of all, there was just, there was just that, a direct connection with somebody alive; uh, I believe he was the last person alive who knew Mildred, and, or at least I should say, um, who had firsthand knowledge of her espionage.

I said, you know, "Pretend that I'm in the room with you and Mildred; what did it smell like?

What did it look like?"

And, and the details that he told me were just, um, they really brought the scene to life for me, the history to life.

Franklin: Um, it's very resonant and poignant what happens at the end of your conversation.

What did he say to you and what happened?

Donner: Oh, yes, um, at the very end of our, our last interview, he looked into my, my eyes with tears in his eyes and he said, "Well, Rebecca, now I can die."

And then shortly thereafter he did.

And I, I just, you know, I had tears in my eyes and, and I, when he said this, and I said, of course, "Oh no, you know, don't, don't do that.

Um, um, we have lots more to talk about."

And, um, and one of my biggest regrets was that he wasn't alive to see the book in print, 'cause I just wanted him to see his life story finally, um, put between, uh, two covers and, and, and people are so inspired, you know, readers have, have just written me countless letters talking about how inspired they are by him.

And, and uh, and how incredibly brave this 11-year-old boy was, uh, to do what he did.

And um, and then, you know, a few months after his death, his family got in touch with me and said, "Rebecca, we have 12 steamer trunks of documents.

Would you like to go through them?"

<laugh> And I said, "Why, yes, I would."

<Laugh>.

So I jumped on a plane.

I was in New York at the time.

And I, I, I flew across the country to, to, uh, California.

And in these trunks there were photographs and letters and, um, that just, it was just a gold mine.

And, um, in particular, one treasure was, um, his mother's diaries.

And so I got to really corroborate so much of what he told me, which is, I was craving that, you know, I, I mean, he told me these vivid, uh, stories, but I wanted something in print, you know?

Franklin: The underground resistance group of which she was a part continued, it kept getting more and more dangerous.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: And then unfortunately, um, through a series of blunders, not their fault, a code was cracked and just as they were about, she and her husband were about to leave, get out, escape, they were arrested.

I hate to accelerate this story, but her husband was, was hanged.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: Um, and Mildred was in prison and very, very ill. And, um, it looked as if she might escape death.

Um, she had a trial, and she was sentenced to prison.

Donner: Mm-hmm.

Franklin: But that was not to be the case.

Donner: Right.

Franklin: Um, talk about what happened.

Donner: Yes.

Well, two days after, um, this sentence was given, uh, six years in prison, uh, Hitler found out about it, and he was irate and he ordered a reversal.

Um, she was brought before another panel of judges, uh, and it was just really, um, for the sake of appearances.

Um, and she was sentenced to be decapitated by guillotine.

And on February 16th, um, 1943, she was strapped to a guillotine and beheaded under a cloak of secrecy.

Uh, and so they, um, the Nazi regime did not want it to get out to the Americans that this, that there was an American who, um, they had incarcerated, tortured and then executed.

According to all available records, she was the only American man or woman, uh, to be executed on Hitler's direct order.

Franklin: And another thing that is just so, uh, um, again, poignant is that her husband was able to get a letter in to her.

Donner: Yes, yes.

Franklin: That she was able to read before… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …she was killed.

Donner: His farewell letter to Mildred.

Um, and, uh, Franklin: And that letter… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …made it.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: It made it because of one woman.

Donner: Right.

Gertrud Klapputh, who was Mildred's cellmate for one month, exactly.

She was in solitary confinement for many months.

Um, but after, uh, Arvid's execution, they put, uh, a woman into her cell, um, to make sure she wouldn't commit suicide.

That was what they often did with prisoners.

And Gertrud, uh, was also in the resistance.

And she wrote two letters that she sent to Mildred's mother-in-law describing their daily conversations and, and, uh, their routines, and they would sing songs to each other and recite poetry.

And it was really a moment of, um, uh, levity, not really levity exactly, but, but just a, a consoling moment in these sort of very grim days.

And, um, and one of the things that she wrote about was that Mildred would read Arvid's letter to her over and over again.

This is his farewell letter.

And she would weep, and she would tell stories about Arvid.

And then right before Gertrud was to be transferred to Ravensbrück concentration camp, Mildred gave her that letter and said, "Please, if you survive, give this back to the family."

And Gertrud was transferred to Ravensbrück.

And she did indeed survive, just barely.

And in 1952, she wrote Arvid's mother.

And she enclosed this letter in, in the letter.

And this letter is so incredibly poignant.

Um, and it really speaks to their, uh, moral conviction and their courage and their determination to fight at all costs, uh, uh, you know, for what they believed in.

And, um, and at the top of this letter, there's a, there's a drawing of a sun.

And when I saw this, I just about fell to the floor, because that little sun is at the bottom of all of my grandmother's letters to me.

And it's at the bottom of all of the letters that Mildred wrote to my grandmother.

And so it's a sort of a family symbol that started with probably Mildred's mother, but anyway, Mildred used it.

And then, and then Mildred used it with, with Jane and, and then Jane used it with me.

And, uh, and there it was.

So it's interesting that the symbol he chose was this, this sunshine.

Franklin: If you could talk to Mildred, what would you want to ask her?

There's so much, I'm sure.

Donner: There's so much there.

I mean, I'd say.

I, I, I, um, it's more what I would want to tell her.

You know, I, I, I felt when I was writing, uh, the chapters about her solitary confinement, um, after her arrest and I was sort of imagining myself in that cell with her, I, I, you know, I would want to whisper to her that I'm right there with her, something like that, something encouraging.

You know, that, um, three generations later, um, that, that, you know, I'm sort of in some way across the generations holding her hand.

Franklin: And is she in you; do you have any personality traits that you've noticed?

Donner: <laugh> It's funny.

My grandmother when I was 16, when she gave me these letters, she did say, you remind me so much of Mildred.

Franklin: She and her husband ultimately, um, weren't just giving information to Americans.

But they were giving information to the Soviets.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And, um, it's a long story about how that happened and why it happened.

Um, but do you think the fact that they were, uh, doing that in some way kept the story from being known about earlier?

Donner: Definitely.

The story really was viewed through a Cold War lens, uh, after the war, and because Mildred and Arvid and their co-conspirators, um, did give information to, to the Russians, um, they were viewed as communist spies.

It was suppressed for almost 50 years and, and the U.S. government viewed her…there was actually one document that I found that was classified, uh, for decades.

Um, one part of, uh, U.S. intelligence in this one department, uh, uh, uh, somebody wrote in a memo, uh, she, you know, "Mildred Harnack is a, is a hero and, and she should be lauded for her bravery," and, um, as, as a, uh, central force in the underground resistance to Hitler.

And then his superior wrote in another memo, "Uh, no, uh, actually her execution was justified."

Franklin: So, um, circling back, one of the reasons that your great-grandmother did not want to talk about the M… Donner: Yes.

Franklin: …on the wall, did not want to talk about Mildred, was because all of this was so frightening to the family and so horrifying that she was over there and she was at risk and, and frankly your own grandmother went and visited her.

So that's scary for the great-grandmother.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: But, um, afterwards, because she had been a communist as well, the great-grandmother, her sister, did not want these letters to be anywhere.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: Did not want a trace of her around, because it was scary to even be…the inference, you know, the potential association.

Donner: Sure.

And her husband, uh, worked in DC, and, and as, she was very worried about the taint of communism; he would lose his job, um, that they would lose their house, et cetera.

Franklin: So, your great-grandmother, Mildred's sister, asked the family, told the family, "Get rid of these letters and evidence that we were associated with her."

But that wasn't totally the case.

And that's why your grandmother, who really... Donner: That's right.

Franklin: …really adored Mildred.

Donner: Yes, she did.

Franklin: Um, saved, well, she came across these letters in the attic.

Donner: Yes.

Right.

So, it is interesting, uh, and people are rather astonished to hear that my great-grandmother ordered the family to burn every trace of Mildred, all of her pictures, all of her letters.

And, and, many did, uh, out of fear, uh, that they would be, um, identified as communists.

It was also, I think my great grandmother's way, it was complex, of dealing with her grief.

She was just absolutely devastated, um, that this had happened to Mildred.

And so, uh, she said as, as, as, you know, let's bury this and move on with our lives.

Um, and, uh, but then little did she know that her own mother had stashed a bundle of, of Mildred's letters in the attic.

And so, after my great-grandmother died, my grandmother discovered, um, the letters and, uh, and those were the letters that she gave me.

Franklin: This is cinematic and I'm sure you've been asked before.

Donner: <laugh> Yeah.

Franklin: Will this be a film?

Donner: There are lots of producers and directors circling around, uh, you know, right now.

So yes… Franklin: Because -- I'm sorry.

Donner: I, it will, but I don't know exactly who will be doing it quite yet, so.

Franklin: Let's talk about 2016.

You had this story since you were 16 years old yourself.

Donner: Yeah.

Franklin: You had a couple other books in you that you wrote.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: And you knew this would take a lot of research anyway.

Um, but something about 2016 triggered a more intense desire to write this book.

Donner: Yes.

Franklin: What was that?

Donner: I felt that resistance was in the zeitgeist.

Uh, I felt that, uh, in the runup to the presidential election, uh, there suddenly became, um, in, in my mind, uh, an urgent need for people to understand, um, about how important it is to resist and to fight for what you believe in.

And, um, and, and really this idea that democracy is fragile.

It's a very important story, um, to learn about what happened, happened to Germany, how swiftly Germany fell from fascist dictators, pardon me, from parliamentary democracy to fascist dictatorship.

Um, it happened in a blink of an eye before anybody really knew what was going on.

And, and, uh, that was one lesson that I felt that it was important for people to learn and in, in our democracy.

And another one was that it's important to fight.

I mean, and, and unfortunately, you know, the story of Mildred, uh, and her co-conspirators, some would view as a story of failure because they were executed, almost all of them.

Um, but I don't choose to view it that way.

And I think that, um, the story, uh, can be a rather inspirational story about, um, how important it is to have the courage of your convictions and to fight for what you believe in.

Uh, and, um, it, you know, regardless of what the risks are, they woke up every day knowing what the risks were, but that's how they chose to live their lives.

And so, it, you know, these are stories that can inspire us, I think.

So that's why I decided right then, you know, "I think it's time that I write this book."

Franklin: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me.

Donner: It's my absolute pleasure.

Thank you.

Franklin: You've been listening to Rebecca Donner, the author of "All the Frequent Troubles of Our Days."

Our conversation was recorded at the 2022 Sun Valley Writers' Conference.

My thanks to the organizers of that exceptional event, and to the Dialogue team.

If you'd like to watch this interview again, or any of the 70 conversations we've taped over the past 15 years at the conference, head over to our website at idahoptv.org/dialogue.

You'll also find them on the Idaho Public Television YouTube channel.

And don't forget to like the Dialogue Facebook page!

For Dialogue, I'm Marcia Franklin.

Thanks for joining us.

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With additional funding from the James and Barbara Cimino Foundation.